For my second interview, I chose a lady who has had a profound effect on my life and still continues to do so. She has known me since I was very little and she has always been a fascinating person.
Just to clarify the title, I choose the term fireside because of the feelings evoked in me by this interview. It made me envision sitting by a wonderful fire, chatting deep into the night on various subjects with Barbara. No real fire was burned in the making of this interview. 
Barb is a one sexy mama!! (Photo by James Turner)
Before you read the interview, let me issue a few warnings. Prepare to laugh for she tells some funny stories, really!! Also prepare to be inspired by her words because she gives an absolutely fantastic interview and here’s the killer… most importantly get ready to think. Yes, she will make you think, as she has made me do several times. Without further ado, here is Barbara Dixon answering 10 personal questions.
1. What inspired you to choose to move to Nigeria, a whole other continent and a whole other life? I never knew you then and I am curious about the chain of events which led to that decision.
From my earliest memories, I wanted to travel and always knew that when I graduated from university (something else I always knew I would do), I would start this adventure. CUSO (former Canadian University Students Overseas) was the best known agency across Canada for overseas work opportunities. I was married by the time I finished university and had to convince my then husband that my dream of not only traveling but living overseas, in a third world country, should become his dream also. It was not something he had ever thought about but was open to the idea and so the application process began.
If I remember correctly, and my memory is fading with age and concussions, the whole process took over a year. We were accepted but not told where we would be going. Then, we were told that we were going to Papua New Guinea. Excitement started to build! We were told we would receive a two week orientation in Ottawa sometime during the summer of 1978 and then we would be off. Maps to find where we would be living were sought and the planning began. Then, about a month before we were to depart, we were told that our destination had changed and we were off to a place called, Ilesa in Nigeria, West Africa…so much for planning, yet great experience in going to our new home where one gets used to learning to go with the flow.
There were things to be done before we left and many goodbyes to be made. We travelled from Halifax to Montreal in June to see my best friend. She was getting married and I would miss this special event. Then, it was off to Winnipeg to see my family to say our goodbyes.
We arrived in Ottawa eager, exciting, scared, but in a good way, ready to begin our journey. Then, the day came for our long flight to Nigeria. I remember getting off the plane and being hit by the extreme dry heat of northern Nigeria. It was so hot that the sweat evaporated as it hit the air and the smell, oh the smell of open sewage, a smell that no one can describe, and yet, a smell that disappeared as Nigeria became our home.
The day we arrived at our house in Ilesa, was one of shock and dismay. We had been told that we would have a furnished house. It was furnished all right with spiders, geckos, dirt and very limited furnishings. There was no power and the water supply was limited to two buckets of water per day. I remember sitting on the floor crying and wondering what I had gotten myself into. I made a mental commitment to stay until Christmas knowing that I was now in culture shock.
But as the story goes, Nigeria became my home for not only the initial two year contract we had originally committed to, but for a third year that we chose to stay. Although it was only my home for a very short three years of my life, it was, and in some ways still is, a major marker in my life view. There was my life pre-Nigeria and my life post-Nigeria. It is a place where my heart still lives!
2. What are some of your favorite memories of living in Nigeria and what is/are the one or two things you could not stomach?
I have many, many favourite memories. It is difficult to choose only some but let me think. There were my students, particularly Tunde, Dare, Kayode and Ayoola. Tunde was in my class the first year I taught. He also lived at the house next to ours at the staff residence area of the school compound. He was the same age as me, and although I was his teacher, and in his culture, this status meant that he had to show me great respect, he became my very close friend. When he became ill with tuberculosis, he lived with us for three months and I took care of him. This caused some embarrassment for his uncle who could not care for him but everyone knew it was the only way Tunde could get care and survive. I remember one funny experience when Tunde arrived with a dead squirrel and asked us if he could use our stove to cook it. He offered some to me, but it didn’t look that appetizing – more bones than anything else. He was happy as it meant some protein for him. Tunde was the main reason we extended our contract for an additional year. Dare was the sixteen year old son of our neighbour who shared our duplex building. He was full of life and curiosity about us Westerners. His dream was to go to China. When we asked him why China, he said that it must be a very special place as everything was Made in China. Kayode and Ayoola were two students who lived in the boy’s hostel across from our house. They came every night to our house to study, iron their school uniforms and get some extra food to eat.
Another favourite story from Nigeria, is one Saturday morning one of the boys from the hostel, came to our door asking for a plaster (Band-Aid). We thought that someone was injured and asked if we could help. The boy replied it was for the goat. We went outside and found a dead goat which the students had been instructed to kill for a celebration. When they were shaving the hair off the goat, they had nicked it and were unable to continue without putting a plaster on the cut.
There are many, many stories to tell but I think the people and our interactions with our neighbours the Ilori’s, your parents and the other Sri Lankans and Indians, my students, the Fine Arts Club I started, and Comfort the lady who looked after Jennifer when she was a baby, all bring back a warm feeling inside.
What could I not stomach, for me the first thing that comes to mind is the leftovers of the British system of caning students. This was the normal, daily practice at the school. I refused to cane my students much to the chagrin and utter disgust of all the teachers. When they had daily canings each morning in front of the school assembly, where all the teachers were on the stage and the person to be punished was brought up, I always stood up in front of everyone and walked out of the auditorium. I remember many teachers and some students telling me that if I didn’t cane my students, they would not respect me. At first, my students tested me but they soon learned that I respected them and therefore, they started to respect me. To this day, I keep in touch with many of my former students and we have a mutual respect and love for one another. They remind me regularly about how my “differences” influenced their lives in positive ways.
The other thing I couldn’t stomach is that people died from illnesses that are easily curable. If there is any blame for this, it must be placed on the rich countries of the world including Canada, who have no clue and do not seem to care unless it can benefit them in some way. This angers me to no end!
3. After you completed your contract in Nigeria, you traveled around the world. Tell me a little about your adventures. What are some of your fondest memories of the travel, favorite places, events that took place, adventures, misadventures, anything and everything? Would you do it again?
We left Nigeria and went to Kenya, the Seychelle Islands, Sri Lanka, India, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Australia, New Zealand, Tahiti, Los Angeles, Vancouver to Calgary by train, then flew to Halifax and backtracked to Winnipeg. In total, we traveled for six months. I had the backpack and Jennifer’s father carried her on his back. It was a great adventure seeing the world. I loved Kenya! It was very different from Nigeria more modern, yet with wild animals that did not exist in West Africa. We spent a month traveling throughout the country including a safari. One of the most memorable places we visited was Lamu. I don’t think a place like this exists in the world. It is a tropical island off the coast of Kenya but it is like stepping back in time. Narrow streets, no cars, donkeys and dhow for transportation, endless beaches and rolling dunes with tiny villages describe some aspects of Lamu. Yet, it is the mixture of people and blended faces that remain in my mind – a combination of Swahili, Turkish, Portuguese, and Arab. One enters another world in Lamu.
The Seychelles have got to be one of the most beautiful places in the world. Again a tiny island with coral reefs, great French restaurants, and high military security. We were going for a walk one day, when suddenly out of the bushes, many soldiers jumped out and we were surrounded with high powered rifles pointing at us. Unbeknown to us, we were walking on the Presidential grounds.
In Sri Lanka and India, we went to visit our friends who we had taught with in Nigeria. Jennifer took her first steps on a beach near Batticaloa. We visited your parents and met your parents’ families. We visited other colleagues in Colombo. At that time, I planned to buy a piece of property and retire in Sri Lanka. Unfortunately, politics and war will prevent that now.
I have stories about each place we visited, some adventures and some misadventures. What I can say, is that I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunity to travel and see these countries, meet some wonderful people, and learn about new cultures. All gave me a greater appreciation for and a deeper understanding of how people live in this world we share. Would I do it again – yes in a heartbeat!!!
4. How did becoming a mother change you?
I think that the biggest change in becoming a mother was an increased appreciation and respect for my own mother and father. I began to see a side of my mother that I never thought about or saw before. I started to realize what the word sacrifice really means.
When I think about when my first child Jennifer was born, I remember calling my mother from the hospital and after giving her the joyful news, I got mad at her for not telling me what labour was really like. I also remember looking at Jennifer in amazement. It had been a difficult pregnancy in Nigeria and then after she was born it was four months of colic, sleepless nights, exhaustion, travel back to Nigeria, and yet my love for this little creature continued to grow. Four years later, when my son Brendan was born, it was instant love the first time I saw him.
The immediate change after having my first child came in looking at the world through different eyes. I had been living in Nigeria for two years, came back to Winnipeg, had my baby, and returned to Nigeria for another year when she was eight weeks old. What I quickly noticed is how the so-called first world was so backwards compared to the so-called third world. At that time in Canada and probably still today, we had the luxury of thinking of ourselves as special because we produced this child, like the occurrence never happened before. We had birthing classes, baby showers, and public health nurses who came to make sure mom and baby were doing okay. Yet, for the most part, we in Canada are on our own after giving birth. The grandparents come for the obligatory trip full of excitement to see their new grandchild. The mother who got a lot of attention for 9 months suddenly becomes invisible as everyone walks by her to see “the baby”. This did not happen in my case because I was staying with my parents and youngest sister, each of who took shifts taking care of this colicky little child. I appreciated this very much and don’t know how I would have survived 20 out of 24 hours of crying on my own. To note though, when I returned to Nigeria, the school had automatically, without a request from us, ensured that our teaching schedules allowed for one of us to be home with the baby. This would never occur in our process orientated, legally regulated country of Canada.
I also noticed that women could not openly feed their children in a natural way in public in Canada. No, we were forced to hide in bathrooms or behind closed doors. Can you imagine going to McDonald’s ordering a Big Mac and then being told to go eat it in the washroom? It would be unheard of, yet, that is where breastfeeding was allotted. Not in Nigeria though, where mother’s milk was encouraged, supported, and considered normal and natural. Who is really the third world now?!
Motherhood changed me also, in that, I now had to think about people other than myself. This meant making choices, sacrificing career opportunities for steady income, taking out bank loans for Europe school trips and knowing that it was the right thing to do because I was now a mother.
5. In the last 6 years, you’ve become a grandmother twice, how did that change you? How did it affect your relationship with your daughter?
Being a grandmother has shown me what pure love is. It is a feeling that I cannot describe. It is so very joyful! I think being a grandmother has changed me in that now I have a different overview of life and life’s priorities. I have more patience because of my grandchildren. I see things in a much bigger picture. As a mother, you love your children but there are many other things that also occur when you are raising them. Little things, like dinner had to be made, laundry had to be done, grocery shopping and housecleaning had to occur, and building a career was one of my priorities – all were in competition for my time and energy while bringing up my children.
As a grandmother, I have the time. I clear my calendar and I am there for them 100%. It is not a chore or something I have to squeeze in between other responsibilities. It is love. As a grandmother, one has learned what is really important in life. It is not worrying about if they oblige every rule you set. It is not about making them do their homework or practice whatever activity they are involved in. It is about the bigger picture of their spirit being nurtured. It is about listening to them, encouraging them, teaching them, respecting them, and being a soft place to come to. I never had a grandparent and don’t know what it is like or how I am supposed to act. But, I do know that being a grandparent is the most precious gift I have ever received.
I think it has affected my relationship with my daughter but it could also be that my daughter is older and more mature. I find myself telling her to not do some of the things I did when I was her age and a young mother. Things like, “don’t work such long hours, you have little kids”, but she is very much like me when I was her age. I think she will have to become a grandmother to learn to slow down and enjoy the sweetness of little ones. It is too bad that the wisdom we learn as we grow older is not something we can grasp when we are younger. I guess that is just the journey of life, each stage is just meant to be.
Because we are so much alike, it is difficult for us to be close in that stereotypical mother-daughter way. We talk daily or sometimes several times daily. She lives five minutes away which ten years ago, if I had even suggested that this would exist, she would have passionately and adamantly denied. So, we are close but in our own way. I don’t think daughters ever know their mothers as woman or as people. We see our mothers and that is okay.
6. What are your 5 big aha moments?
This is a difficult question for me to answer. I think every day I have aha moments. It is just a matter of recognizing them! One that I probably learned in between my marriages, is that you don`t have to buy-into society`s expectations. Another is that you have to feel comfortable with the decisions you make. Some people think I am crazy or unstable for living with five different men over the past thirty plus years. I think I am blessed! With each one, I learned different perspectives and viewpoints. I learned different ways of living and different value systems. I learned different expressions of love. It has been a mind expanding experience. I think everyone should go through at least one divorce as it significantly increases one`s understanding of oneself. It is a good sorting experience to determine what contentment and joy really mean. An old friend of mine once said that marriage was designed when we all died at thirty and that was considered to be a lifetime. That was a big aha moment for me!
Another aha moment was the realization that I am white. I don`t feel comfortable being in a room with all white people. It is too limiting an experience with too narrowly defined ideals of right and wrong. With this aha moment though, I realized that I had privileges that others did not have simply by the virtue of my skin colour. This has prompted me throughout my lifetime to consciously and deliberately work to ensure others have the same privileges!
Another aha moment was when one of my former father-in-laws died. He was not the ideal father or husband. I was asked to give his eulogy and I had to struggle to find the good in spite of the bad. The aha moment was the realization that we all do the best that we can do within the confines of our life circumstances. I don`t know if others can expect more even when they may need more.
An aha moment I had around the time I turned fifty is the realization that an experience women have all their lives suddenly comes to an abrupt end. From the time we are little, we are used to men paying attention to us. Sometimes this attention can be annoying but often it boosts our ego. Why, because we know deep down inside us that this still gives us some kind of power. Then, around fifty we start to notice that we do not get those same looks. This might be disturbing to some and a relief to others. For me, what I started to notice is that women of a more mature age took over, and they were now the ones giving the compliments to each other. The aha moment was that women are our greatest support. We understand our experiences and can laugh and dance and cry with each other in no way we can ever expect or hope for with a man. We, as women, share a common bond.
An aha moment of late that reinforced views I developed many years ago, is my utter disgust at how we, in the West, treat our elderly like they are farm animals set out to pasture to die. Out pastures are called assisted living, supportive housing, and personal care. Assisted, supportive and personal they are not. We put them into these small apartments with complete strangers. There are no children, no pets, no gardens, just time waiting to take them away. Within a couple of generations, we have gone from living with multi-generations to an isolated existence of the nuclear family. I think we could all have an aha moment and start respecting our elderly for the wisdom they have to offer us and take care of them as they took care of us. I think it will get worse when the Generation Me`s parents get older.
7. Can you tell me of 5 books which have changed your life and how?
I have read many books over the years. When I was a young girl and then a teenager, I read a book about Norman Bethune, a Canadian doctor working in China. From then on, I was consumed about reading any book I could find about China and its different eras and dynasties. Today, it remains one of my favourite topics particularly looking at it from the perspective of women who have faced extreme struggles and who have each in their own way found strength through their adversities. There are too many titles to mention on this topic.
Also as a teenager, there were two books, one called Black Like Me by John Griffin
In my adult life, Mahatma Gandhi’s autobiography
There are also two books about India; one is called What the What the Body Remembers by Shauna Singh Baldwin. It is a book about a family, a struggle between the two wives of a Sikh man, and the partition of India. Again, what I learned from this book is that once again, even through the struggles, caused by colonialism and religion, people’s spirits can remain intact. The strength of the woman portrayed in this book reminded me that we have a choice as to whether we allow ourselves to be victims or survivors. The other book is called A Fine Balance by Rohinton Mistry. It deals with corruption and chaos in India where the four characters in the book form an alliance to survive. From this book, again I learned about the human spirit and survival.
Then, there are the many other books such as Night by Elie Wiesel, Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe
8. If you were to meet your 16 year old self today, what advice would you give her, from your vast experience, to help her?
This is an interesting question! I often use the example of being a teenager versus a parent and how our perceptions of the world change. Given this though, when I look at myself and I think of myself at 16, I am not that different. It was a great year of my life. I chose very deliberately and consciously to lose my virginity. I met one of my two best friends. I missed 63 out of 200 days of high school while I hung out with my other best friend and three 22 year old guys. It was a time of rebellion. There was the pro-choice movement, women’s liberation, Pierre Trudeau, and rock and roll. It was freedom and dreams for the future!
What would I tell this sixteen year old? I would tell her to do what she did exactly how she did it!
What advice would I give her about her future life? I would tell her support herself in getting a Masters or professional degree before she supported her husband doing it. I would tell her not to be so worried about such petty things like her husband’s dirty socks or underwear on the floor. I would tell her to take time for herself. I would tell her to learn how to dance, and to keep dancing and being free spirited. I would tell her to always be a fighter for injustice but to be quiet in her methods. I would tell her to put money away every pay cheque to travel the world. I would tell her to accept love when it was offered to her but never settle down. I would tell her to meet as many people from as many places as she could. Most importantly, I would tell her to love herself and to always be kind to herself!
9. Jennifer, your daughter, once told me that you were now an agnostic, not an atheist any more. Is that true and how did you come to change your mind?
No, it is not true. I am a diehard atheist!!! I practice the principals of all religions. I do not like organized religious institutions and feel that as “big businesses” they have taken advantage of people’s weakness, fears, and wealth. Yet, each day of my professional life, I come in contact with Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus and those that believe in the Medicine Way. I show respect for their beliefs. I go out of my way to help. I appreciate when they thank me and offer their god’s blessings.
As I age, I am not as harsh in my arguments about religion. I am not sure if this is wisdom or exhaustion. I do not believe in an afterlife. I believe this is my only life and that I am here to serve and give to others, to question and challenge the status quo, to fight for equity and fairness for all, and to truly, not in words but in actions, love my fellow human beings. I do not need a church or a temple to do this.
10. Around 1985, you were instrumental in helping our family immigrate to Canada. What drove you to go so out of your way to help us and then offer us your home? We are so thankful for your help.
I do not feel that I went out of my way to help your family. It was simply the right thing to do. When I believe something is the right thing to do, nothing stops me. I never accept the final word as being NO. I knew that it was unsafe for your family to return to Sri Lanka and that your application to come to Canada got caught in the middle of a political changeover in this country. I always think that what I did, or still do, is something that anyone would do. Others tell me this is not so and that I have a gift for helping others, particularly newcomers. In your families case, I did what had to be done from getting my friends across the country to send a letter to their MPs, to going to the press, to calling whatever politician I could, from having your case discussed on the Parliament floor in Ottawa, and finally to calling the former Minister of Immigration at his home and telling him that you were being kicked out of England and not being allowed to come to Canada simply because of spite from the new Minister`s office. As a result, he arranged for you to go to the Canadian Embassy in London and the rest is history. You lived in our home because where else would you live – you were family! Family helps one another and so that is why you are here, in my country, and your country, in my home and now in your home.
I was recently interviewed for a corporate video for Adrienne Clarkson’s Institute for Canadian Citizenship. The question was, “What does it mean to be an active citizen?” My answer was, “Giving back! That is what it means to be an active citizen.” So, I didn’t go out of my way to help your family. I was just being an active citizen. Here is the link to that interview. Barbara is the second speaker you will watch.
Afterthought
This interview has been an interesting experience. Usually, I am asked about my professional life. I rarely think about my past or such things as aha moments. Thank you for giving me this opportunity!
I would like to end this interview with some of my favourite quotes which describe who I am and who I continue to strive to be:
- Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail – Ralph Waldo Emerson
- You must be the change you wish to see in the world – Mahatma Gandhi
- You can’t do anything about the length of your life, but you can do something about its width and depth – Henry Louis Mencken
- Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile – Albert Einstein
- I feel no need for any other faith than my faith in human beings – Pearl S. Buck
- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has – Margaret Mead
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